Episode 037

Fresh off of his commentating of the WSOP we have Joe Stapleton, aka @StapesA poker commentator for ESPN and Poker Stars, based out of Los Angeles, California.

As a communications major hailing from Boston University, Joe has always used comedy as a driver. Known for his social media vigilantism, Joe has used his comedy to make a name for himself as a poker commentator, stand up comedian and a social media influencer. 

In his early days of poker commentating, Stapes launched a very successful podcast called Two Jacks in a Hole. The show had several episodes that cracked the Itunes comedy top 10. Even with the found success in podcasting Stapes sheds a light on enjoying any victory no matter big or small. Maybe if something was great its not supposed to be left as is. 

Full show notes below.


Daniel: Here we go about to start another podcast and it’s On The Bus. What’s going on everybody? On The Bus podcast number—Yeah.

Brandon: Yeah.

Daniel: I think it’s 37. We are at number 37 and today, tomorrow if you’re hearing this, July 25th is the last day for the Kickstarter.

Brandon: We are currently at 14,100, I want to say, and I can’t believe it and I’m so ecstatic. I’m so happy and I can’t believe-- everybody who has contributed, everybody who has pledged, strangers, friends, family. Everybody who has helped support and pledge in this message, in this trip. I’m fucking so, so, so amped. I’m so hyped. I’m so excited to get this bus trip going. I’m so excited to get off the ground and I’m excited to collaborate and share this incredible journey with everyone. 

Everyone who has pledged and all those who haven’t already pledged. So everybody who has, please be on a look out for updates with the Kickstarter. When your rewards are going to be coming in and for those of you who may have not pledged, maybe those who have listened to the show and are still interested to find out, not just about the Kickstarter but what the Save the Deena tour is, in South America starting in August. 

Head over to our website onthebuspodcast.com. You can email us or you can connect to us on any of our social media pages. We are there to connect with you. We’ve loved the feedback we’ve gotten. Positive, negative, it’s all stuff-- it’s all input information to help this show become the best show-- become the greatest show and become a show and that’s we, me and Daniel and Roy but the viewer in choice. 

So again, huge shout, huge thanks. Want to go quick, quick, quick, quick right into our affiliates, sponsors. First affiliate, amazon.com. Tell me, tell me just think if you know someone better. Know a company better-- no company, better customer service. First of all, if you don’t like something, if you want to return something, there is no better customer service resource, Amazon is that. And I take my girlfriend, she was sick, she [inaudible 0:02:05] joint or something, down in Amazon, shipped it to her. She doesn’t even live in the same state as me. That’s how good it is. They are the best. Same day delivery, bam, got it what she needed, got it there, not even the same state and best part is, you can shop on Amazon through our portal at onthebuspodcast.com. 

Thanks to everyone who has shopped through there. Please continue to shop through there. Amazon loves it. I don’t know if we love it. I can’t say if we love it or not, but it’s the ticket. It really is. So again onthebuspodcast.com, click on that big bright Amazon portal. It’s right in the Kickstarter and check out that new website while you’re at it. Brand new designed and its big cat approved. Next stop we got Green Roads World. The Green Roads World, the largest CBD manufacturer, pharmaceutical grade CBD in Florida. 

I would normally just say South Florida. South Florida usually up on the up and edge, on the state of Florida. Doesn’t really mean a lot for the state of Florida, but they have the largest and the best CBD product, pharmaceutical grade. I’ve been to their warehouse. I’ve been to their labs. They make the greatest shit. And it’s the greatest because it’s going to help heal inflammations. It’s going to reduce inflammation and inflammation is the number one component, it’s the way our bodies battle and counteract any pain, any sickness, any disease that we get.

Inflammation is what builds up and you don’t want too much inflammation. You got to be able to deal with that inflammation. You got to reduce the inflammation and nothing is going to do that better than the delicious, delicious, sweet, goody, goody, gum drops over at Green Roads World. From tea to coffee, to regular CBD drops, if you love the taste of it. If you don’t love the taste of it, it’s not something you do, they’re going to have something that’s made for you. Whether it’s a gummy, whether it’s a -- the frogs, the frogs are big, the frogs are delicious. And it’s great for sleep. It’s great for sleep that I add some with melatonin and bam. 

You’re not just waking up better with a good night sleep but you’re feeling better in the morning. So head over to Green Roads World and again, you’re going to use promo code onthebus, lower case one word, for a 30% discount. I kid you not, 30% and one more time Green Roads World and again you can see that onthebuspodcast.com as well. Now quick, we’re going in. We’re jumping in today’s episode. We got Joe Stapleton aka Stakes-- Stapes, excuse me, poker commentator, comedian for Pokerstars. pokerstars.com, I think they have a television show now. I’m pretty sure they do. 

Joe has been part commentating since 2005, during the recent 2012 when a lot of American-- the American government put a tax or said that all these poker companies had to pay tax. Joe spent a lot of time over in London and we get over on that in the show. And we also talk about Joe’s past within the podcast community. How he was a very, very, very early adaptor of the podcast. I don’t know if you call it art. Technology? Hopefully we come down the show. But Joe goes over a wide ranging things of where he first got into the podcasting and how that has propelled him, not just to his poker commentating career. 

But the way he use comedy into his poker commentating, his podcast and his current stand up career. The guy is hilarious. We have a great interesting talk. He knows how to be around the mic. He is a cool individual and there’s going to be a wider range of places to find him. @Stapes S-T-A-P-E-S on Twitter is probably the best. But without further ado, before I go badging anything, before you’re going to miss is amazing conversation with Joe Stapleton. I’m going to shut the hell up and I’m going to send you in the bus-- On The Bus with Joe Stapes.

[Music]

Daniel: No we won’t because Stapes is in the house. Yeah, first person to be drinking beer and coffee right there. But you got your bulletproof, did you throw anything else in that coffee?

Joe: I put some of that TBD oil, to be determined oil on my tongue. Should we call it TBD actually because they are like, “I don’t know what it is, just tell me later.” It’s to be determined what I put in there.

Daniel: Shout out to Green Roads World for the delicious TBD oil.

Joe: Shout out to Green Roads World, Did I get that right?

Daniel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s the one.

Brandon: Yes.

Joe: Fantastic, I expect that $5 check in the mail. I’m really glad by the way guys that this podcast turned out to be what it is. Because when I was walking over here and I was like, “I don’t even know what I agreed to.” Like this could been a like a white supremacist podcast. I was like sitting here and I’m like, “Oh, nice shoes boys.”

Brandon: We give off a lot of illusions. KKK is one of the things we’re trying to give off Ku Klux Klan podcast.

Joe: Just break it. Because you don’t want to get rid of anyone of the audience at this point, right. You want to be inclusive not exclusive. KKK members welcome.

Brandon: Don’t give away anything. We need everyone here. We're desperate. 

Daniel: If you’re out there, there’s a show just for you and here it is Stapes.

Brandon: On the bus or off the bus.

Joe: On The Bus, yeah, you guys-- what a great idea. I hope it’s-- you know, we’re not in a bus right now. Spoiler alert, but I’m looking forward to hearing about what you guys get from the road.

Brandon: Are you interested in joining us on the road?

Joe: I am but I’m like-- you never heard of like-- well this is LA, right. This is the town full empty promises. So yeah, of course, of course I’m going to join you guys on the road. I love to. 

Daniel: We don’t believe in promises here.

Joe: Okay, that’s good. No, I mean, obviously-- the answer to your question is, yes I’m interested in joining you.

Brandon: There we go.

Joe: Do I think that that’s even remotely possible? Probably not, but you know what, let’s talk afterward and if stars align, I’m a crazy person. I got a lot of crazy stories, so--

Daniel: We do crazy.

Joe: I’ve done way stupider shit than flown half way across the world to ride on a RV with two guys here in the podcast.

Daniel: Yeah, the bus is going to need live announcements from the road.

Brandon: What is the stupidest thing you’ve done?

Joe: If by live announcements, you mean like a lot of bean farts then I’m happy to contribute.

Daniel: On the loud speaker you can fart on it, whatever is needed.

Brandon: The megaphone speaker that’s going to be on the roof. But back to the stupidest thing you’ve ever done then.

Joe: I do a lot of really stupid dating things. Like I’ll meet a girl in another country and then fly her in to like hang out for a month. Like after having spent a night with her.

Brandon: Doesn’t sound stupid at all.

Joe: Oh my God, it’s the worst because--

Daniel: Because it’s like done multiple times, do you?

Joe: Yeah, like I don’t learn my lesson either.

Daniel: Like a light addiction.

Joe: Oh my God, I have a ridiculous addiction. And people like--you know, there’s a lot of people that like won’t like recognize sex addiction as a thing and I will tell you, no drug is easier to get than a sock. All right, I can get-- I can feed my sex addiction anytime I want, just anytime there’s a sock on the floor, that’s all it takes for me to get turn-- I’m just kidding, I’m not turned on by the sock. The sock is often used for clean-up.

Brandon: Yeah, but it’s--

Joe: Do you have a better method? I can tell you’re like disapproving to this.

Brandon: Masturbation has become so boring. The porn just not doing it. Just have to have a woman there.

Joe: See this is my philosophy is the exact opposite. Where I’ve gotten to the point where having sex with a woman is barely better than porn.

Brandon: Really?

Joe: Oh yeah. Especially because—Look, the Tinder years has been really good to me and so, you know, it sounds really awful. I don’t really like it. A connection at this point would be good, I think, would be something more worthwhile, but at this point like, remember that scene in Something About Mary? Where he is getting advice about going out with Mary and his friends are like, “You got to jerk off first.”

Daniel: You got to jerk off, yeah.

Joe: You got to jerk off, which leads to the hair gel scene or whatever. If I jerk off before a date now, I don’t go.

Brandon: No-- likewise.

Joe: I’m just like, "What I’m going for?" Like I’m good.

Brandon: My interest is gone.

Joe: Yeah.

Daniel: I get excited for the date and then jerk off and then don’t go on the date.

Joe: Right, that’s what I’m saying. Like-- and that’s what I mean like so if masturbation really is like that much worse than real sex. We would all just not masturbate and then go on the date. But like it’s pretty fucking close and it has none of the drawbacks of actual sex.

Daniel: I think you just know your body too well at this point.

Joe: Oh my God, yeah, there’s no chance anyone can get me off, other than me. That’s it. I actually watch so much porn at this point that I can only climax if a girl has a cursor over her face. That is-- I’m just, you know, that’s-- yeah, just close one eye and pretend what is on the screen.

Brandon: For me it’s, you know, this is like completely different person. It’s like a completely different woman.

Joe: It’s a stranger.

Brandon: No, the left hand.

Joe: Yeah.

Brandon: You’re going right hand so long, you bring that left hand out, it’s like, “Whoa, who are you?”

Joe: No, I’m mad at the left hand. I’m like, “Get out of here, you don’t know what you’re doing, where’s my regular?”

Daniel: I started growing up right, and then around 13, switched over to left and--

Joe: Really?

Daniel: Yeah, this—

Joe: That’s a good move, you know why? because my penis has a slight bend to it now because I’ve been masturbating with only my right hand, for like fucking 20 something years. So there’s ever so slight like you would need like a laser guided [whistle] to tell, but there’s like a slight curved here because of the way my right hand grips it.

Daniel: Yeah but then even when you’re stroking it, if you’re pulling it one direction.

Joe: Exactly. So it’s really lucky that you changed at a certain point because you probably re-corrected that.

Brandon: Penis curvature is all due to excessive masturbation. That’s my thesis, that’s my [inaudible 0:11:30].

Joe: That’s it, scientific fact.

Brandon: I’m going to Johns Hopkins next semester.

Daniel: I’m not doing any testing on that.

Joe: We cut Daniel off, so you switched at a certain point.

Daniel: No, I had this conversation with another friend like, you know, you don’t start to mention that to people and then eventually like, “Listen, I ended up switching.” Hey-- my friend is like, “I ended up switching too.” and we start talking about it and it turned out at 13, we got in the computer and we’re right hand dominant, so our right hand got on the mouse and our left hand started jerking it. So we ended up switching.

Joe: Interesting.

Daniel: It’s just science.

Brandon: It’s just science.

Joe: Man, can I ask how old you are? Is that public information?

Daniel: 29.

Joe: You’re 29. I’m 35--

Daniel: 16 years as a lefty.

Joe: So I was just behind you, I was like right-- I wasn’t quite at the point where I like, I didn’t really need a mouse while I was jerking off because it would take four minutes for one photo to load. So you know--

Daniel: Yeah, you are at still AOL dominant when-- back when your year, you enjoyed dial up.

Joe: Yeah man-- No I was on AOL like a hundred percent, slickjoe09.

Brandon: Even in this like chatting age, sex, location.

Joe: I was actually just before ASL really became a thing. If they haven’t like figured-- like nothing, I mean, it was just like, “Hi, where are you from?”. I didn’t really do a lot of chat rooms, but I did-- my brother created-- like remember the AOL floppy disks you get for free?

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: He took a bunch of those and pretended that he had made copies of the dirty pictures I’ve been looking at. And then one time when he really needed to get back at me, so in front of my parents, he pulled out all these AOL free disk. He was like, “I have Joe’s porn. Joe’s been looking at porn.” and my parents cried.

Brandon: Cried.

Joe: They cried. They were so-- they felt like such terrible bad parents that they cried.

Daniel: Now, now a days if my kids look at-- like I’m expecting my kids to-- I’m going to probably give them porn in 12, like it’s there.

Joe: Really?

Daniel: It’s on the internet. You should get them started early, let them know.

Joe: Look, I figured out. It’s like kids-- it’s like parents with the drinking, right. You’re like, “I’d much rather you watch porn and jerk off with me than out somewhere estrange with your friends.”

Brandon: That’s how you were made by your parents, having sex and then you are going out looking a different ways to whether release or procreate and it’s like, they are crying?

Joe: You’re so young. You’re so young and liberal and it’s fantastic and it’s wonderful, but you’re forgetting about the fact that my parents, one of them was a virgin when she got married. So like me, like practicing at sex and like trying to like have a fulfilling sex life, is not high on their list of things for me doing at 15 years old.

Brandon: I remember my first internet porn searches and it’s like, so you get in this internet things. And it was I didn’t know about cookies or viruses either and I’m on the family computer and no one is home and then like my dad--

Daniel: I get to blame listening to music and why there’s so many viruses on the computer.

Brandon: My dad comes back, “So what were you doing on the computer? There’s all this searches of like, you know,” your first time going on there, I put the XXX. Maybe that will get some searches on and then, tits, all right-- and just whole barrage and then I didn’t realize there was a search history or cookie and he comes back later, like a few days later, “What’s on the computer and there’s all these searches on there.”, "It wasn’t me."

Daniel: Your dad is a savage human being.

Joe: And the thing is, but your dad-- Wait, so your dad is earnestly asking you like, “Hey--"

Brandon: I was 13. I was like 12 or 13.

Joe: Right, or your dad is like sticking it to you by asking you?

Brandon: No, my dad-- the coolest.

Joe: He is earnestly asking you.

Brandon: Yeah, he’s like, “Was that you?”

Joe: Because my dad will be like, “Oh yeah, who fucking searched for these? You little bastard.” That would be my dad’s approach to it.

Daniel: Spanking.

Joe: I avoided spanking. My Dad was not like that but the threats of spankings happened on the regular. Not by the time I was old enough to be looking at internet porn, but as a child. The ever present danger of being spanked was constantly there. There was no search engines though. Like when I was first getting into my naked pictures in the interface. We have to do this thing-- old man over here--where before AOL, there’s such a thing called a bulletin board system, a BBS. 

Where like some nerd somewhere in your town had a computer hooked up to a phone line and you would call him. His computer and his computer pick up the phone and there will be all these menus like graphically interface, so like a bunch of text but it would make out like welcome-- it was Tidal Wave, I remember the name of this BBS and it will be like, press one for games, press two for whatever, press three for JPEGS and I press three for JPEGS and be like triple X JPEGS like on this random dudes computer that I would look at there and there are all this like text based games. Like you’re walking in a forest, do you want to look at the tree to your right? Like that was my first experiences with going online.

Brandon: It’s fascinating that your parents or even that-- it’s still a common thing that spanking is used to reprimand or discipline children. However, it could also be in--

Joe: It can fuck him up, is that what you’re trying to say?

Brandon: Sexually though, you’re-- I’m going to say sexually, what would be the term? Not sexually violating-- Sexually--

Joe: Stimulating.

Brandon: It’s sexually stimulating.

Joe: Yeah, it can make-- give you like a spanking fetish potentially later on.

Brandon: Or even that where you like BDSM. You like getting hit. You like getting smack and slapped. You’re actually enhancing and influencing-- inhibiting, excuse me, your child’s kink in the future.

Joe: Yeah, I mean, we really don’t-- everything our parents does fucks us up. If they spank us, if they don’t spank us, if they fucking give us ecto cooloer, if they don’t give us, everything fucks us up, like everything that’s wrong with us now. We can trace it back to our parents. And a lot of our parents weren’t bad people. It’s just you got to trace it back somewhere.

Brandon: It’s a quote, “We didn’t know any better.” that’s usually what you’re dealing. Okay, I didn't know any better.

Joe: I didn’t know it’s better now, but people are still fucked up. Everyone’s got social anxiety now. Right, like everyone is like-- have you met anyone your age that hasn’t complained about anxiety at some point?

Brandon: Me.

Joe: You guys, you don’t do anxiety? That’s great, that’s wonderful. Almost everyone I know--

Daniel: Him not me.

Joe: Right, so you have it right? You felt the feeling of anxiety. All I can think about is like, if we go back to the 1800s right, to like a doctor’s office. And there’s like a dude, he is sitting in the waiting room, he’s got like an arrow through his chest. And there’s like another guy he’s got like a gunshot wound in his hand and the doctor’s got [inaudible 0:18:00]. Another guy, he’s got like tuberculosis, and finally gets to this one guy, looks fine-- like hey, “What seems to be the problem?” He is like, “I’m really anxious. I feel awkward in social situations.” He’d be like, “Get the fuck out of my office right now. There’s a guy with an arrow in his fucking chest and you-- I’m sorry, you feel uncomfortable in social situations? Get the fuck--" but that’s us now. Like, “Oh, I don’t like leaving the house. Can Postmates deliver a party to me?”

Daniel: If they could deliver parties then I wouldn’t be socially anxious.

Joe: These kids say-- when you were telling me about what this podcast is about and I was like, “Oh, it’s like young people.” but if I tell you about my career path and how I got to be where I am like, “It’s not really popular advice these days with young people.”

Daniel: How so? Why don’t you go ahead and start and give the people a little background about your stuff.

Joe: Okay, so what I do for a living now is I do poker commentary on television. The main company I work for is a company called Pokerstars. They use to do a show called The Big Game which was on Fox here in America and I got my big break hosting that show and the government in 2011, banned online poker and I had a show on Fox and a show that was due to premier on ESPN. This government ruling came down on a Friday, by Monday both of my shows were pulled off the air 72 hours later. 

I was fortunate enough that Pokerstars, who has produced my show, said, "Hey, we're leaving America. It's clear the government doesn't want us there and we got to go, but we still do programming in several other countries around the world in English language and that's done out of London. Do you want on work on that instead?" and I said, "Hell fucking yes." I was on TV for like a minute. I thought my career was over, so I said, "Yes." and a lot of things happened. I move a lot in [inaudible 0:19:49] but whatever I'm back now. 

But-- so that's my main job, is doing poker commentary on TV. I do another show here in the States on CBS Sports called Poker Night America. And I moved here to Los Angeles though because I want to be a comedy writer and I work for this TV show here called Mad TV.

Brandon: Oh, I remember that. Is it still on?

Joe: It's not. Cancel in 2009 and then they brought it back for one season this past year on the WB. But I rose the ranks there very quickly but not as a comedy writer. As a-- on the production side, so I became a production coordinator when I was 22 years old. I was making like 60-65 grand a year and it was fucking fantastic, but I wasn't really writing because I was working super hard and then on the weekends I had money to do what I wanted, so I didn't really write. 

And nobody at Mad TV really gave a shit, that I wanted to be a comedy writer. Like they didn't really care. So if I can give, the first piece advice to young people is that like, I was one of those folks that didn't believe in pushing my own agenda. I went in to work. I did my job. I never talked about want to be a comedy writer. I never went and try to like-- If someone asked me, I would tell them. But I was waiting to get noticed rather than pushing my own agenda. Meanwhile, the people who are pushing their own agendas were moving on.

Daniel: Are the ones getting noticed.

Joe: Yeah, they were getting noticed and I was like shaking my head at those people. So one thing I would do is, I will push my own agenda a little bit more than I did. But, you know, I don't really have any regrets about that. And I got very lucky that I took a job as a reporter, a tournament reporter for the World Series of Poker in 2005 and I was like the funny poker writer for a minute and my bosses hated it. 

They are like, "Look, this is not Mad TV. This is Poker. This is Serious." And I was like, "Look, you're making a big mistake. Poker is boring and if you want people to be interested in poker, you got to make it interesting and one way to make something interesting is make it fun-- make it funny." They're like, "We respectfully disagree." and they let me go and then about a year later somebody came back to me and they were like, "We want you to host a podcast." So I did a poker podcast and then I was the poker video guy. Then, I ended up doing poker TV shows. 

Anyway, very long story to close in. So I do that as my day job. I also do stand-up comedy now. I finally got off my dead ass and started actually working toward being a comedian. So when I lived in London, I didn't know anybody. I moved there at 31. I didn't have a ton of friends. And you are going to go out and do stand-up every night of the week. I didn't do it every night. Did it like two or three nights a week. And so yeah, that's where I'm at, living here in LA, looking for the next thing. Hopefully, I would love to reach a bigger audience than poker. 

Eventually, but you know, I'm really-- if I can say without being a total ass bag, I'm good at what I do. I'm confident when I do them and I'm happy to do that. I would like to-- I got some bigger fish to fry hopefully, eventually, take out a new challenge that isn't exactly poker, but-- and just if I can really quick, so it's not all about me. The productions that I have worked on have just been amazing and there's like hundreds of people who all work super hard to give me the best possible look. Like I can just show up and like crack jokes and I look like a-- as far as it first poker commentary goes, I get to live like a rock star. But there is like tons and tons of people working behind the scenes that basically make that happen for me.

Daniel: One of the things about poker is, I feel like they did cut out-- most of the show is they've cut out the fun element out of it.

Joe: There has been a change. People have complained about for the last few years, yeah that poker is just been way more, you know, they try to make it much more like a sport now. Where it's all about the game plan, it's all about the strategy. And look, I struggle with that myself. As far as strategy is concerned, I'm not the best strategy guy ever, but unfortunately, selling poker is niche, right. Small audience and a big portion of that small audience is poker players. And the poker players want good strategy and they want good poker talk and the rest of the world doesn't, but they are very loud section of the audience. 

So, you know, we try to have a balance because I want the respect of those guys. I don't want them to think I'm an idiot, but by the same token, the show is not really for them. You know, like ER there's like a lot of doctors watching. ER going like, "That's not right because it would never happen like that" and you're like, "well, we're not disagreeing but, you know, the show is not for you just like with hundreds of millions of other people."

Brandon: The same thing goes in movies. Like, people want like actual science in their movies. They get the actual-- a scientist to come in and be writers for movie scripts. Like for example, what was that movie? Interstellar, did they a really great job in trying to incorporate--

Joe: But Neil deGrasse Tyson afterward, he is like, "Okay, here's my list of things that are inaccurate for this movie." and you're like, "I love you but shut up. like, I don't care."

Daniel: I've travelled to the seventh dimension that's what it's like. That was the realest movie that I have ever seen.

Joe: It was like a documentary.

Daniel: That was a documentary. The scenery floating in the books and he is like traveling different timelines is, "yeah, I've been there."

Brandon: Very POV.

Joe: Don't get me started on the Magical Bookcase. Anyway, that whole thing start is me saying, so if I was going to talk about like how I-- and look, I live a dream life. I travel for a living. I have 350,000 frequent flier miles that I use to fly various friends all over the place to come hang out with me, so I use them all the time. 

I get to be on television. I get to make jokes. I've got a really great-- I live here on Los Angeles where most of the time I don't do anything. So and the advice that I thought that maybe wouldn't go over that well with guys your age is that-- and all I can say is how I got to where I am. I never said no. I work tons of overtime, everywhere, without asking to be paid for. I did tons of gigs for free and I know that we live in a day and age where if you're an artist of any sort, people expect you guys to work for free, right?

Brandon: Uh-huh.

Joe: They expect you to design their logo for free and maybe we'll pay you if the business is a success or like, write me a short blurb about whatever and it's like, not for pay. I don't know where things are at right now with kids your age being taken advantaged off. All I will say is be in taking advantaged off, a little bit, was a part of the game for my generation.

Brandon: Yeah, accepting that give and take mentality.

Joe: To prove it, you're just like prove it to them that you are willing to put in the effort and there is a point where people is start taking advantage, I don't still know what that is.

Brandon: Like you said, it's like give and take. It's being willing to put yourself out there in any and every situation. I mean, it comes down to people taking on new jobs and going to be an intern at a new company. 

Joe: Absolutely.

Brandon: It's like, I'm going to give you 30 days of my life right now. Anything and everything you need me to do because this is the place I want to go. This is where I want to work. I think it was-- was it last episode, Teague was talking about a certain employer, big time company and you know, he looks-- Mark Zuckerberg, when he goes and hire the CEO.

Joe: Let's just call him Blaze Brook.

Brandon: Blaze Brook. And he goes on, he goes for a COO or CFO. He was looking for someone that he could work for. That this is person that he would admire to work under. And I'm sure, I mean, that person is coming to a higher up state inside a company. However, people don't realize is they want everything given to them, however, because that's what everything comes to us so much easier than it did a generation before or 10 or 15 or 20 years before. Things only are getting easier and more comfortable. So where do we put in that sacrifice? Where is the place I'm going to give in order to get that return from? That's the question.

Joe: Right and you guys is being like, are you still considered millennial at your age?

Brandon: No, they call us that.

Daniel: Yeah.

Joe: You catch a lot of shit. You really do, you catch a lot of shit and people are like will try to act like, you're not tough enough and like you don't work hard enough and you expect a free ride and I see a little bit of that, I do. But I also know that every generation says that.

Daniel: Yeah.

Brandon: Yes.

Joe: So you got to find-- split the difference a little bit and just say like, "Hey, just because they seem to not have the same work ethic that we did, it doesn't make that necessarily true.

Daniel: I mean, I think we operate, we're just not-- we're just still younger to where we're not the biggest operational part of the society to where we can build the system around the way that we build things.

Joe: Yeah, absolutely and maybe that will be the thing. Maybe like once you guys are fucking prom king, you'll, you know, set things up in a way that it works better for everybody. Who knows?

Daniel: Then we'll hate the younger generation also.

Joe: Of course you will, yeah, no that goes--

Brandon: Why do you think that is? Why is that the pattern that can't be broken?

Joe: That's a really good question. I'm going to get a stab at it. I'm not like, just because you asked me.

Brandon: Butcher it.

Daniel: Yeah, give it a poke.

Joe: I don't know, for the same reason like I don't know what you guys are parent is like, but my parents are gone like crazy, conservation, republican over the years.

Brandon: Likewise.

Daniel: Same. 

Joe: And so, you know, it's just that thing that you-- although I think, first, one reason why is that people-- that we're all getting better at this is that, when I say we live in-- I was talking to you earlier about the fact that we live in a bubble and this is all been talking a lot, but everybody lives in a bubble. Okay, we've got our bubble and our republican parents have their bubble and you can't-- I almost feel like yes of course like we get into it and I sometimes feel hatred, not towards my parents specifically, but towards people that I have different viewpoints as me. Especially, one that's on the conservative side of things. I really get heated by this but I try to remind myself that, like, all they know is their experience.

Brandon: Exactly.

Joe: And so and I think that to sort off answer your question. The reason why, it's because all we know is our experience and like that becomes our reality eventually. Is being like, "Oh, my experiences is that I work super hard." There is very few people who will roll up here and your guest will go, "I didn't work hard at all to get here. I just fucking got lucky as shit. I have no talent. I'm just super lucky. I just went on and on about how I did this with like I have this theory about being poker funny and blah-blah-blah and I did all these jobs. Like everybody thinks they work hard. It's just built-- nobody is ever like, "You know what, I didn't really contribute very much. I don't deserve this at all."

Brandon: Even though we have, you know, the internet we think we are even more connected that we ever had been. Then we have all these technologies in order to connect us. We-- like you said, we still can't share those experiences. It seems like--

Joe: There's nothing-- the only thing that seem to work for me and you guys are going to be doing it is traveling. It's traveling and moving to big cities. When I moved to Los Angeles, I will fully admit that I was of the belief that poor people are looking for hand outs. People of color just aren't working hard enough. This is America. This is America if you are not succeeding then it's your problem, right. I moved here with that mentality because that all I knew in my life was growing up in relatively comfortable, like you know, we were like, lower middle class, but that's a perfect place to end up being conservative, right?

Brandon: Uh-huh.

Joe: Because you're like, "If I can do this." Lower middle-- I wasn't rich. I wasn't like-- and I saw lots of rich people. I was like, "Anyone can do it." And then when I move to big cities and when I traveled around the world. I went, "Holy shit." even though I saw this people growing up my life that have more advantage me. I had infinite more advantages than the people below me.

Brandon: The best thing is seen like indentured servitude or slavery. Still being around and still being incorporated. You look at the Middle East for example, I lived out there and all of these migrant workers from-- there's Nepal, Bangladesh, India, the Philippines, I mean, that fuels all their economies. I think it's 20% of the Bangladesh economy is off of migrant workers sending cash back, of them all working inside United Arab Emirates or no, it's Qatar because Qatar recently got a--

 

Daniel: Kind off work up.

Joe: Yeah, they got the--

Brandon: Not just, yeah, well they do that--

Joe: I think the shut out basically.

Brandon: They are shut up by all these Middle Eastern countries, gulf countries.

Joe: Don't want to deal with them anymore.

Brandon: But to my point is, that you see like they are making nothing. They make no-- little to no money.

Joe: But Brandon, Brandon you're talking about literal indentured servitude, right. You just take one step away from that, right. We have that right here in America. Where that right here in America with someone and it-- this really opened my eyes, I was at a bar in Hollywood, one time, a couple of years ago. And there was a group of black girls there. And I was like, "I've never flirted with black girls before in my life. These girls are pretty. Let me talk to them." And this girl was not complaining at all, I was just chatting her up about her life and she was telling me about how she is the manager of a [inaudible 0:32:34] beef ball, which is a crappy fast food chain. 

That I've only ever seen one or two locations total. That she lives in like a one bedroom apartment with three or four of her cousins. This is a girl, she's not a drug addict, she's not a bad person. She's a poor black girl, who that's going to be her life like how do you ever get out of that? When you're working, when you're sharing an apartment and you have, like the probably the best job you're going to get with no education. Like how do you beat that, it's like little poverty. Like, that is basically indentured servitude. Especially, when you look into like the way that how much more money and this by the way doesn't apply just to people of color, it applies to anyone who is poor, but how much more expensive life is for poor people that it is for rich people.

Brandon: It's interesting, I see that complain happen a lot with welfare or child support. Use to people who're saying, "Why are you spending the money that the government is giving on a steak." People are just buying TVs, or they are just buying cell phones. And it's like, if that is where they are spending the little money they do get and they have, why are you telling them where and when they could spend it? If it's going to make them happy.

Joe: But they're also not doing that mostly.

Brandon: Exactly, why are we saying that this person is automatically happy now. We hate that they are buying, spending this money in a television or a cell phone. like where is priorities? Where are your priorities to say like, "No don't do this."

Joe: Yeah, I don't care where they use that money on.

Brandon: Agreed. Then we're saying, "Okay, that money right there is going to keep them in the same location. It's going to keep them the same location and who you are in the society." To break those barriers and jump statuses, if you want to say, caste systems of the 21st century, it's not easy.

Joe: Yeah, it shows, you know, and that's like little poverty is impossible to break. Like you get a pay day loan, right.

Brandon: Oh, those.

Joe: You're a little short, you get a pay day loan. You get a parking ticket. These are things that like matter--

Daniel: They have no support groups either. They are like-- we grew up, you know, middle class and if something was to go horribly wrong with me, I can go to my parent's house, you know what I mean? 

Joe: Absolutely.

Daniel: You could go to your parent's house. I could have friends and they don't, you know, their friends are also poor. Their parents are also in poverty, so the people that they go back to aren't able to give them any help.

Joe: Right. It just leads to more and more debt and eventually legal trouble and it's just a cycle that can't be broken. But when I was younger, I didn't understand this. I didn't understand this at all. This is a time for another plug? Is time for a commercial?

Daniel: We're down in powder, here in the studio.

Brandon: MCT squared for you, just put a little on your tongue. Drop it in your coffee or your tea. It's MCT.

Joe: More directly in your mouth.

Brandon: You got some MCT--

Daniel: I'll save them for later.

Brandon: Continue, sorry.

Joe: No, yeah, so I just-- I didn't realize that that was the thing but it is. It really is. It's not a level playing field. What I thought was like, "I did everything." No I didn't, no, I had so many more advantages than most people did.

Brandon: To pull yourself up by your bootstraps mentality.

Joe: Yeah.

Brandon: Like who is someone who is driven-- but I think that drive comes from experience, you know, me being an athlete, I wouldn't have got this, you know, competitive edge you already noticed and pick up on, you know, I got it you know watching just Michael Jordan tapes. Like this guy was the most cut throat competitive person, but I was able to reason, realize that by five or six and say, "Wow, this is the best basketball player in the world. This is what I want to do. If he is doing this, I know someday I'm going to pick up. This is something that I got to do. I have to win and do whatever it takes to competitively [inaudible 0:36:05].

Joe: Well, it's a good positive role model which I think we're lacking a lot.

Brandon: Lot of people it's education. That people do not have the where with all that this is, you know,--

Joe: I do think education helps a lot. Now, education takes many forms. So you can be educated like-- well look, I genuinely learned a lot about the world when I went to college. I went to Boston University and I had Liberal Arts, I major in communications, but Liberal Arts mostly. And so I learned about Samurai and I learned about all these English literature. The things that like that did open my eyes to a lot of the world, but education comes in many forms and I do think that traveling is--

Daniel: We should be forced. Like everyone should be forced to travel. I feel like that's the way that you honestly know the tool.

Joe: It's a luxury. it's like a nice thought to be like, "Everyone should be forced to go to Cozumel for spring break."

Daniel: Imagine if everyone was giving like, I don't know.

Joe: The Peace Corp type of things though, absolutely, you know,

Daniel: Or you get four grand to back pack and explore at least this country.

Brandon: But you can't even do that even in our own country. We it's such a big vast country.

Daniel: They are scared of travel. People are scared of travel, who have never experience it. They are scared of all the cultures.

Brandon: But I'm saying, if we do not want to leave the country. We could do a whole service program within the United States whether it's volunteering and living inside a state park. We have the most beautiful state national parks and landmarks in the world.

Joe: Or just go into another city.

Daniel: No, I think people need other cultures. They don't need national parks.

Brandon: That's almost like going to completely different culture. If you're going to experience somebody, I mean, we have that same problem right now in politics.

Joe: Not if it's a bunch of people from your own like high school that you all go back pack together through your summer like.

Daniel: You need to be forced to other cultures and then-- because that's what opened it up for me. Travel. That's what it's opened up for everyone we talked to. We're travelers everyone who-- same thing over here.

Joe: It's just meeting different people and as many different people as you can.

Daniel: Realize that other people are going through that struggle.

Joe: Right.

Brandon: But again, with the education, is it just traveling? Just the opportunity to a Liberal Arts college and get this, what do you want to call it, western valued education. Is that all it is or is it or do we have to change the entire mentality of a culture of people?

Joe: I mean, I think they're same thing. Yeah, like, you know, putting a label on it like Liberal Arts Education is like, you know, I think [inaudible 0:38:24] it a little bit. In that just, I do think of as impossible-- not impossible. It makes it very difficult on a person to be hateful and to not understand other people if you're educated and I do think that comes with book learning also. 

If it doesn't come along with that then maybe there is, you know, you're a little bit tougher nut to crack, but it's a start. For a lot of people that's all they're going to get, is to be able to, you know, their State school for four years and I do think that it helps. I do think that just reading and also, having teachers that inspire you and who can influence you into thinking about things in different ways.

Daniel: So what was your-- your degree was communications. 

Joe: Film and television technically, but yeah.

Daniel: Film and television. So when you're going into production, like, what do you prep for? Are you thinking about-- or how does your education build into your prep for any show that you might go on TV.

Joe: Well for me, my education helps a lot and that it gives you like a frame of reference for a lot of things, right. So if I want to make a joke about like, James Joyce in a portrait of lady or if I want to make a joke about like how many days a samurai applicant waited outside the temple before they would let them in. Like I, you know, I haven't-- you don't know this one? They did it in Fight Club. It's like they ring the door bell and they are like, "Please admit to your temple." They're like, "No, get the fuck out of here. Go away." and they slam the door on your face.

Brandon: You're too blond. 

Joe: Yeah, exactly and then like a day later they come back and they open the door and they're like, "Oh, you're still here. You're wasting time get the fuck out of here." and then a lot of time, but like day three or four then they let you in because you've-- so whatever. So this is like, that's a reference for a joke. Like so when I see Fight Club, I know what they are referencing in that and so I think that, you know, the education has helped me to just have a great bases of knowledge to base jokes on. 

If you don't know a lot of things, it's hard to make jokes. It's hard to understand jokes. And so yeah, that and you know, also-- so yeah, for my preparation and just-- I was fortunate enough to take some great communications classes, where they teach you how to get your point across with a minimal number of words in your writing. So just like the word "That" for example, right. Like you can pretty much take the word "That", out of any sentence that you're writing.

Daniel: It's so hard to actually do though, to actually optimize language to-- because you can understand that your-- you can go back and listen to your podcast and know that things are, "Oh I should have said it like this. I should have said like that." When I was in the moment, why was I saying, "Why wasn't I doing that." Even he is counting the "umms" or the "likes" during the conversation.

Brandon: No "That's"

Daniel: Oh "That's".

Brandon: Yeah.

Daniel: So how do you optimize that even if you're aware.

Brandon: The counts are for "That's"

Joe: "That" that's okay. That was a reference to an actual thing. Yeah, and again, you know, it's like, it's like anything else. It's practice and training and when I did my podcast, I had tons of virgil-- virgil-- what the fuck is virgil?

Daniel: Virgil Cain.

Joe: I was trying to say, "Verbal", I had tons of verbal crutches. I would say "like" a lot. I was really guilty of saying the word "literally", like constantly. I was constantly saying--

Brandon: You don't like a "literally" type of guy.

Joe: I know, well I was also much younger then too. So you know, I was in my late twenties, very early thirties. If that came from-- and I hated doing it and my co-host is like, "You need to listen to the shows. I know that it's a waste of your time, sort off, because you've already been there, you've already done that. You need to listen to the shows and you will hear these things that don't sound good. You're great, don't get me wrong, you're great, you're funny, but you need to listen to the shows" and so you go back and you listen and you go, "Oh, I hate listening to myself."

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: And then, the parts that make you really cringe. You're like, "I got to stop doing that." And it's just practice and conditioning. And how many episodes have you guys done now?

Daniel: We've recorded 37 that started to release.

Joe: 37, I'll say this, I really didn't feel like I was hitting my stride until after a hundred.

Brandon: Uh-huh.

Joe: Took me like a hundred episodes--

Daniel: Good to know.

Joe: To feel comfortable and to like have worked out the kinks and to sort of have gotten over some of those verbal crutches. I think some of them is maybe beyond that, but it was like around a hundred is when I started to feel like, "Okay I'm like pretty good at this." Getting good at, I should say.

Brandon: And how many total episodes you released?

Joe: Under the title Two Jacks In The Hole, we did like maybe 150 and then under Huff and Stapes, I think we did like another 80.

Brandon: What was the one thing, the one kink that you never got out and that you can't stand?

Joe: That's a good question. I think it was that, and it took me much longer. My voice, literally the sound of my voice has changed and I had a very timid almost boyish sounding voice, back then. A, because I was younger, but also I had like a-- you could hear a lack of confidence in my voice. And so that was probably the one thing that when I go back and even listen to later episodes. 

I can hear in my voice how nervous I was, still, doing it then. And a lot of these is confidence. A lot of this is-- and you're playing a character too, right. You're playing a character and so my character on the show should have been a little bit more confident, and what a dick he was.

Brandon: Uh-huh.

Joe: But you can-- Yeah, I can hear it and my voice and I'm like, "Oh, I just--"

Brandon: I could just hear the subtle difference that you just did when you became the dick just now.

Joe: Right. Yeah, I know. The dick is-- he's like, "Oh what's happening here, what's going on to the studio. You got some great art you got in the wall here." You know what I mean? Like, he's very confident and I never quite nailed that. It was the last thing to go, I should say.

Brandon: Okay.

Joe: Was that like timidness that maybe when you guys listen-- when you listen back to the show, do you hear it, not just verbal crutches, but you hear things that you're just like.

Daniel: Always, I always listen back and hear things I don't like. "Why did say that?" or "Why didn't I use that word?", "Why didn't I asked that question?", "No, no, that would have been a great question, what are you doing?"

Joe: Okay, but so in the moment, you don't think of that and then just not do it, right?

Daniel: Yes.

Joe: You do.

Daniel: No, you're saying the moment do I think of those things?

Joe: Yeah, and then you just-- and like chicken out or just like--

Daniel: Occasionally, that will happen but that's more like--

Joe: Being mad at yourself for the times that you had the idea and then just didn't trust yourself enough to do it.

Daniel: Okay.

Joe: In retrospect, of course we're all going to think about things. We're going to be like, "Oh fuck I left that joke on the table." Like there's so many times and one odd thing is that you haven't done this long enough yet. I will accidently, I might shuffle like one of my old shows will come on and I love it. It's nostalgic. It makes me really happy to listen to it. And will be in the middle of conversation. I was like, "Oh you should make this joke." and I have no recollection and then I do make the joke in the moment, like the exact joke I'm thinking of now. 

And so you guys will have that too. You'll have those moments where you will be doing this so long, that you go back and listen to an old show and you go, "Oh man, I really hope I didn't leave this joke on the table." and then you say it and you're like, "Ah, yes." or like this question on the table. So you guys got a long career ahead of you still. It gets better. Gets a lot better.

Brandon: I see it getting better and like you say, it definitely comes with practice. You know, the listening back to the show. Picking up and being aware of those kinks. Those things you like, you dislike. And you know, It's practice. It's work. You got to sit down and say, "Okay, I'm going to practice." So I'm thinking about several questions I'm going to ask the guest and how I'm going to interpret them. How I'm going to display them. I'm going to verbally portray them and if I do it in practice just like any sports, just anything else you do. It's going to be most likely successful. I wanted to go into that show you talked about Two Jacks and a Hole.

Joe: Two Jacks in the Hole.

Brandon: In the Hole, excuse me. And you know, how long the show was early, early podcast. 2007?

Joe: Yeah, right around as we started it. We decided we're like, "Hey, let's steal our poker audience and do something just for us." and we started doing it. I had a gigantic closet. I was living in the Hollywood hills and we record the first-- couple episodes in my closet. Couple episodes in my buddy's kitchen. Then we got fortunate enough that a couple of poker players, names Barry Greenstein and Joe Sebok, decided they want to start a pokertainment website. A website, you know, kind of like a Deadspin that was all article. Instead of being about sports, it's about poker, right. 

Articles, podcast, video blogs, blah-blah-blah. And they wanted to hire us to be like sort of the creative heads of it. And they didn't have a ton of money, but they are paying us to do something we love, so we're in to it and we said, "look, as a part of our deal, we want to do this other show also and you're going to pay for the studio time and you know, it's going to be hosted on your website." and they are like, "Sure, no problem." That was the start of Two Jacks in the Hole and we did that for three or four years. 

And then people-- too many people who are like supposedly close friends of ours and family members would like introduce us at weddings and be like, "This is my cousin Stapes, he does a really great poker podcast." And we'd be like, "No it's not. It's not a poker podcast. Like clearly you don't listen to the show" and so we changed the name. We went down for about six months, we changed the name to Huff and Stapes. We got picked up by a podcast network. That was actually owned by a couple of our radio idols. 

These-- a man and woman named Frank Kramer and Heidi -- fuck how his last name-- Heidi and Frank, they're on mornings here on Los Angeles now. They are big time morning radio DJ's. Some of the second biggest radio market in America. So then we start doing out of the studio at his house and then what happen was, you know, the thing I talked about with the US government came along and ruined my poker on TV in America, thing. So I was flying back and forth a lot and we are doing the show over Skype. I don't know if you guys have done this yet for your show. Cali doesn't really work over Skype. That half a second delay just doesn't work when you're trying to reef off each other and you know, how like when talk and you can't hear the other person and everyone is stepping on each other.

Daniel: There's no visual cues either.

Joe: Yeah. And so the show got difficult to do and the company I was working for offered me to move to London and I said, "No". I said, "No, I'm sorry. I really love the podcast as long as you're not going to fire me, keep flying me back and forth that's what I prefer." About four months later, my co-host also got offered a much better job in New York City and he was married and wanted to have a family and he goes, "Look man, I'm really sorry, but I got to take this." He had been an assistant to a big time producer and the producer said, "Look, when my ship comes in, I'm taking you with me and you're going to be a development executive for me." 

That happened, my co-host just three or four months after I turned down my London job, said, "Look, we had to end the show. I'm leaving. I'm going in New York." and that was it for us. But we had-- man, we did a live version of the show at the John Lovitz Comedy Club at Universal, a onetime only thing. This is going to sound like a Trump brag like, "I won the electoral count in a landslide." That was not a Trump impression, I don't know what that was. But we had line around the block. A line around Universal City walk for people who come to see our show. We sold it out. John Lovitz himself personally came up to me and was-- you guys even know who that is?

Brandon: Yeah, actor, yeah.

Joe: Yeah, that's the ticket. Use to be on the Saturday Night Live back in the day. He came out to us and he was like, "Can you guys please do this every month?" We crushed it with this amazing live show to the podcast live and that was it. That was like our swan song, like, we ended the show a couple months later. But we had the most amazing fans who all said, "We'll pay for the show, we'll do whatever we have to." and we just-- we turned them down. 

We said, "No, like, there's just nothing you can do. You can't match my salary and his salary and make it, you know, there's just no way we would be able to raise that kind of money." So we ended the show, we get people that ask us out almost a daily basis via Twitter and Facebook. Please do a reunion show. Please come back, whatever. And the only reason I am saying this is because that show is the best thing I've ever been a part off. I loved every minute of it. We put our heart and souls into it. We record for like three to four hours every week. We put about 8 to 12 hours of prep into it every week. We would write song parodies and record them. We would do funny phone calls. We would do sketches and commercials. Is this Brandon's mom?

Brandon: No.

Joe: You're late for dinner.

Brandon: It's Montreal.

Joe: Montreal. Now, that's a fun city. So yeah--

Daniel: The whole city of Montreal is calling you?

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: Bonjour, Brandon.

Brandon: If you got to ask, you can't afford it.

Joe: What are you up to? What are you doing? Have some protein.

Brandon: [foreign]

Joe: [foreign], see the Huff and Stapes show are still up on iTunes. Somehow, I don't know how, but if anyone is interested. Listen to this podcast first everyone. Listen to Get On The Bus.

Brandon: What is-- you both went your separate ways. He you said had took a job else in New York. He's in finance now.

Joe: He's a hugely successful television producer now. There's a show called White Queen which he is a producer on. A show called the White Princess on Stars, he's a producer on. He produced two series of show called The Missing on-- also on Stars. He produced a Broadway play that starred Tom Hanks. Written by Nora Ephron. He is doing incredibly well. 

He is basically one of those guys that when there's like a great book or a play, him and his boss buy it up and turn it into a TV show. And so he is just killing it right now. He's got two kids and lives in a very nice neighborhood in Manhattan. And is living the dream life if you want to be a family man.

Brandon: I've seen in the conversations we have, I mean, you're very passionate. Your love for that show from, you know, you're talking about how beautifully you guys had chemistry on the show. The support, the fan base and doing that reunion and how special it is to the fact that you enjoyed it so much that you, you're not still doing podcast or you haven't gone back into doing a podcast because it's something that was just one of those, "I'm going to leave it as it was." There's nothing to going to touch that. 

Joe: Yeah, it's like one of those guys that is so in love with his wife that when his wife dies, he like never takes the ring off, never dates again. I'm very happy to come on people's podcast and be a guest. I love it actually, because it gives me like a little taste of it, but I've had a bunch of offers like, "Let's start a podcast. Let's do this." And I only believe in doing something if I think it's going to be the best. Or that, you know, the best that I can do. And I haven't had an opportunity in the last few years, since then, to do anything that I thought would even remotely touch that. So yeah, I've just stayed away from it. I don't even listen to podcast.

Brandon: I was about to say, you are telling me, I was like "Oh, he listens to this show. I love this one right here."

Joe: it's too painful for me. It's really, really painful. Let's talk about something else, not because it's painful, but I think there's probably like, I'm sick of hearing about other podcast.

Brandon: You miss one of our other goals in the show, to make our guest cry.

Joe: To make them cry.

Daniel: Yeah, that's been my ultimate goal.

Joe: Has anyone cried yet?

Daniel: Not yet, are you ready?

Joe: The weird thing is like I still have a couple like sad stories from my childhood that I think are funny and I try to tell them during stand up and then people are just like, "Oh, we don't know how to react to this." Like I like to tell the story of my dad when he saw my first girlfriend when I was 15 or 16 and he is like, "All right, you got a girlfriend, we're going to have the sex talk. We're going to have the sex talk". I'm like, "Dad"-- I've known what sex is since I was 7 years old. Should we wait for him or--?

Daniel: No, no, no.

Joe: Okay. You know, I figure it out as a kid. You know, there's a thing that looks like it fits in that thing and he's like, "We're going to have the sex talk." And he sits me down--

Daniel: You figured it out at seven years old?

Joe: Yeah, because I'd seen, you know, the male and female form before. I was like, "I bet those things go together."

Daniel: Okay.

Joe: But anyway, at 15 I really knew what it was. You know, wasn't still based on that seven year old hunch. You know, I fucking had seen porn already. You know, like I knew what the fucking sex was. But my Dad, he sits me down on the couch and in a typical dad fashion, he actually completely surprises people and he just says, "All right, here's the sex talk. Don't ever, ever have sex. Sex is evil. I only had sex twice in my life and look what it fucking got me." And he pointed at me and then he pointed at my brother who is in the other room. 

And then he stood up and walked away. I don't know if it was joke, I don't know if he actually genuinely thought that it counted as a sex talk. He didn't laugh, he didn't smile, he just stood and walked out of the room and I think that's very funny, but a lot of people like, "That's a sad story, like, don't tell that story."

Daniel: I keep thinking you're going to bring in like this element of-- this comedic element of like, you know, he laughs-- you guys laugh and joked about it later or something, but no, you are like, "This happened to me [inaudible 0:55:51]."

Joe: That's a legit sex talk. My parents for my 16th birthday, my birthday present was a leaf blower, so I can do the lawn. Like, you know, I have to rake the lawn every year and they were like, "Here's a present. This will make it easier for you."

Daniel: I mean, historically, I'm pretty sure that people are having kids, so that they could help around.

Joe: Exactly, and look, my parents-- I actually do this-- I did a stand-up show at the comedy store in LA here, the night before mother's day. And I was like, "There's a million cards in the world for if you have like the world's greatest mom, right. There's like a million of those but there is no cards, like if your mom is just okay." But it's not like, "Me, I would do some things differently but you didn't put cigarettes out on me, thanks a lot." Like you know what I mean, my parents are fine, they are fine, like there are some fucked up stories, but it's not that, you know, they are fine.

Daniel: Thanks for being average.

Joe: The thing is, they were great as far as the values that they instill to me. I wouldn't change a thing because I me and I like the person that I became. They are a little weird and a little strict but it was-- again, it wasn't until I experienced other people. Lots of other people and I went, "Oh my God, my parents are fucking saints." 

Like when-- I dated a girl out here who's parents like legitimately a party to abusing her and covering it up. And I was like, "Wow, I was complaining about my parents, what the fuck am I doing?" These are bad parents. My parents wouldn't let me see R-rated movies, right. And I was like, "I had a chip in my shoulder for years. This girl's parents was like, you know, I don't want to get-- I don't want to really bum out your audience, but was covering up some horrific shit and I was like, "Fuck, what the hell am I doing? How am I complaining about my parents because I couldn't eat Honey Nut Cheerios."

Brandon: There's a documentary that just came on HBO about this one woman who completely brain washed her daughter to think that she was a cripple. That she had cancer and that she was taking her to-- well orchestrating this foundations for her, you know, "Let's send my daughter because she's got this certain cancer and this disease, [inaudible 0:57:58]" and I haven't seen the documentary, but spoiler alert for everybody, the daughter ends up finding out the she's fine and healthy, actually hired a hit man to kill the mother. So spoiler alert.

Daniel: The spoiler was pretty good.

Joe: So you've seen the documentary already?

Brandon: But I just heard.

Joe: Well if it's not like you can know from not seeing it then it's probably not a spoiler. Like, if there's like the commonly known, you know, synopsis of the story.

Daniel: In the plot, did they tell you that the mom is going to die-- the daughter hires a hit man. That's the definition of spoiler.

Joe: There's still a lot of unanswered questions there. Does the hitman-- does it work? Don't answer these because then you're really spoil it. If you know the answer just shut it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Joe: But I'm saying, I use the spoiler the whole thing yet. That was a good tease as far as I'm concern.

Brandon: Do the hit man and the daughter have an affair?

Joe: Oh my God, see there's so many unanswered questions though.

Daniel: He [inaudible 0:58:47]

Joe: Yeah.

Daniel: We could build stories on this show.

Brandon: Alternate realities of-- it's not fiction television show. I really want to see that one with based off of, who's the guy who conned, Ponzi schemed all his people?

Daniel: Madoff

Joe: Bernie Madoff

Daniel: The one with Robert De Niro and Michelle Pfeiffer. It's on HBO as well?

Joe: The Big--

Daniel: Wizard of Lies.

Joe: Wizard of Lies. So when that whole Bernie Madoff thing went down on our podcast, my friend Scott Huff who is the co-host was Jewish and said we can get away of writing the song and it was called Madoff You Give Jews A Bad Name to the tune of Bon Jovi's, what is it, You Give Love A Bad Name, I think.

Brandon: You give long a bad name.

Joe: Bad we made it You Give Jews A Bad Name. The video is still up on YouTube. It's a song parody where we ran around.

Brandon: Shot to the heart.

Joe: Yeah, so it's like stock bonds and charts and you're something-- You Give Jews A Bad name. And all these Ponzi about how he like-- I remember my favorite line was a, You gave people bagels, now we're giving you locks and then we had a shot of him in hand cuffs. Yeah, so and that's still up online. 

But that's the kind of thing we use to do is that we try to pack as much shit into an episode as we could, so it wasn't just-- now podcasting has come a long way and that people want to hear just the conversation, but we thought we needed like a lot of bells and whistles to keep people tuning in. We made it like a full fledged showery, but it nearly killed us too. You know, we are just putting in--

Daniel: I can only imagine how much work you're putting in to this.

Brandon: You said 8 to 12 hours a week.

Joe: Yeah.

Brandon: Throughout the set. 

Joe: Yeah, and that's each. You know, combine those hours we're talking like 16 to 24 man hours being spent on stuff on a normal week. Sometimes we'd have a big project like that music video, that was clearly, you know, a lot more time were put in. But also, and you guys probably can relate to this, we loved it.

Brandon: Absolutely.

Joe: We fucking loved it and we didn't even care if anyone was listening. Yes, when we hit-- I think we hit number seven on iTunes comedy one time and like, we fucking love that, right. Like it was a huge-- that's why I was telling you before to celebrate the mini victories. 

Brandon: Celebrate the small victories.

Joe: This guy, I should probably give him credit, his name is Andrew Kreisberg, wrote for the Simpsons and was like an alumni of my college and so I met him one time and he gave us pieces of advice. He goes, "Savor the mini victory." These little things kept us going, but we love-- we were so proud of the show, that it didn't really matter if we got paid, you know, when people offer us money and stuff, we didn't take it because we just really love doing it. Yeah, if someone offers a million dollars, we would have fucking taking it but to like take like a couple of hundred bucks from somebody here and there. We're like, "No it's a labor of love for us." and hopefully you guys feel that way about your podcast.

Daniel: Well I think, I think, maybe it was just before its time because I can only imagine if it had gone like two or three years that, like YouTube ad revenue would have offered something for that.

Joe: At the time, there was only one podcast in the world that was making money and that was Carolla. 

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: He was literally the only profitable podcast.

Brandon: Not even Opie and Anthony?

Joe: I don't think they are profitable yet. They are also on the radio too at the same time. I think they are just putting out the radio shows over the-- you know, I think they had a serious show.

Daniel: You were saying beforehand that you don't think that this is disrupting radio.

Joe: I don't think it is yet. I think it's on the precipice, I think that-- again, because our bubbles where we have iPods and computers and WIFI everywhere. I still think 80% of America gets in their car every morning, drives to work and turns on local radio.

Daniel: I'm just waiting for the chip in my brain that allows me to just, I could just change the podcast on my fingers.

Joe: Totally, and you'll have that, but also the same 80% of people are not going to have that. They are still going to be listening to terrestrial radio in their cars for a long time. I think there is a chance that we stop driving in cars before we stop listening to terrestrial radio as a society.

Brandon: I understand. It's almost like the idea that the typewriter brought woman-- no, no, 

Daniel: Wait, where are we headed about this one?

Brandon: Yes.

Joe: He's in dangerous murky water.

Daniel: Here we go, the people are waiting. What will he finish this with?

Brandon: About the finest clothes, incredible.

Stables: And also this is one I love about podcast, right. You just look something up in the middle of your show. It's not a big deal. You just have and look this thing up. Everyone wait for a second.

Daniel: Everyone, hold on a second. 

Joe: Yeah, hold on a second. I'm going to get my thought together.

Daniel: He's going to do that. We're going to go look at Stapes Twitter feed and see if there is anything useful.

Brandon: No, nope, I can't get it. It's something about the typewriter--

Joe: Some invention causes some big social change.

Brandon: Yes, but I'm butchering it and the cloud destroying air time right now.

Joe: Well, I think you can trace that back to a lot of things, probably. I'm also not able to [inaudible 1:03:42] at the top of my head but I think, you know, there's a lot of technological advances that you-- look, how big a game changer is Uber? How big a fucking game changer is Uber that drunk driving should really be a thing of the past. 

Nightlife must be seeing a spike, unlike never before, like in recent history because now going out, you don't have to worry like, "I'm going to drive, what I'm going to do." like it's just a breeze like, I'll just get an Uber. That, I think, is a game changer and especially that they're going to be putting out self driving cars really soon, like in our lifetimes. We may not see drivers on the road anymore.

Daniel: I don't see why it's not happening. I'm finally-- I can say, I use to be a dumb kid and thinking, "Oh you're going to be a [inaudible 1:04:33]. I just had one, I just had two", but now it's like that $20 ride home investment is going to save you maybe 10 or maybe 20 thousands of dollars just to not go home, get pulled over. It's going to ruin your life.

Joe: That's best case scenario. 

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: Worst case scenario, you kill somebody.

Brandon: Or you die yourself.

Joe: Yeah, so I mean, I rather die myself than kill somebody and have to live with that for the rest of my life. But yeah, I mean, your best case scenario, you save yourself thousands of dollars-- to go to Twitter, my Twitter has been so boring lately because I'm just so upset over politics and so I can't even be funny. It seems weird I'll be making like poop jokes and like jerk off jokes like I use to when like, you know, our president is like a fucking complete piece of human garbage. 

Like it's just I can't-- It feels irresponsible. Like I lost a lot of followers during the election. You brought Michael Jordan earlier, right? There's one and only thing I don't like with Michael Jordan, people would always say to him, "Why don't you speak out, like why don't you ever like talk about any of this stuff, you know, stand up for black people whatever." and he is like, "Republicans buy sneakers too."

Daniel: That guy don't give a fuck.

Brandon: He just never touch on topics or subjects like--

Joe: He doesn't get controversial at all because he knows that half of the people who buy his shoes and that fucking pay for tickets to see his basketball games when he was playing are the other side. And so I made a choice in the last couple of years that I believe that if you are a person of influence, that you have a responsibility to lead by example and to say and do the right thing. And so it's made me cut down on the sorts of edgy jokes I make, even though I think that there should be a special dispensation for sensitivity when it comes to jokes depending on the joke.

Daniel: Get patron for edgy side.

Joe: Yeah, that would be fantastic, right. So I can make all the misogynistic and like-- I always say this, I cannot wait for the day where there is true equality in the world because it will be great to be able to make fun of someone other than a rich old white guy again. Like black people and gays and women, they do dumb shit too, they do as much dumb shit as the rest of us, but because the way society is, it's really not very cool to make jokes about them anymore. So I can't wait and see where we reach full equality. 

I mean like, where I can fight a gay guy that's not a hate crime. I just fight him because he's an asshole. Not because he is gay. Also, a gay guy would kick the shit out of me because they are all in ridiculous shape, but it will be great when we are all equal again and we can all make fun of each other equally and we don't have to worry about any of these stuff and I do agree that we need to scale back the jokes. I really do because it doesn't help anything.

Brandon: That's the one thing I like about Milo Yiannopoulos. the one thing I do enjoy about him is that he is willing to go out and say some of these things that are going to upset people and just especially, you know, he claims to be all right conservative and you know, he just everything you know.

Joe: He's a provocateur.

Brandon: But just, he's obviously just playing a character and putting himself out there. He is willing to do this and be the controversy. But you know, say things or say words. Like you say, "Call a gay person a faggot. Why can't you use any words? Look at that faggot. I’m a faggot." He just tore the dangerous faggot just not being scared to say something because he’s willing to offend somebody, but obviously, when you do it and when you say it. 

It’s going to offend somebody, but what are offended by? And you need to ask yourself, why is it that I’m so worried about what someone is saying, but it comes back to you, where you’re saying this is a person of influence. This person is two million dollars--

Joe: Right, I want to spread a message-- a message of good, right. I feel like I have a responsibility to do what I think is a message of good and obviously the people on the other side think they are doing the right thing also and that’s what’s baffling about it. That people can be like, I think to myself like I have a responsibility to stand up for gay rights and for minority right and for a woman’s right to choose. 

Whereas someone on the other side is like, well I have a responsibility to do the right thing was to make sure the babies don’t get murdered. You know what I mean, like everyone thinks they are right.

Daniel: Don’t you feel like you’re doing them a disservice by not ever saying anything bad because then when they do hear something bad that it’s going to-- when they hear a joke, when they hear that-- that bad thing-- like that funny out there comment. They’re going to be over reactive.

Joe: Absolutely, and what I’ve done is even worse than that, is I’ve just, on Twitter this is where how this all start is that, I don’t even make jokes at all anymore in Twitter. Like it just feels really weird to have, you know, the congress trying to push through this health care bill that’s going to take away health care for millions and millions of people and be in like, “Man, did I just have a great jerk off session and make like a typical jack off joke, you know what I mean, like it’s-- it feels--

Daniel: You’ll have a very polarized audience.

Joe: Right, it feels irresponsible when things-- I feel like it’s so important that we resist. I’m a huge hash tag resist guy right now and as much as I love comedy and I want to make people laugh. It’s too important to ignore it. It’s in my opinion it’s like we’re irresponsible to ignore it. And unfortunately, Twitter in the sort of way that social media evolves has mostly become a medium of news and opinions and so there aren’t even a lot of other people joking on Twitter as much anymore.

Daniel: The thing is that your post-- because you said a bunch of people unfollowed you, so now your posts are just getting to the people that already agreed with you.

Joe: For the most part yes but your discounting new followers, right. And one of the things about my particular job and where I pick up followers is that young men are my main demographic. If you look at like sorts of dudes that are picking up poker, it’s like, you know, for legal purposes we’ll say 18 and 19 year old guys, but it’s very young guys who are like, “Oh, I like poker.”, “Oh, I like this Stapes guy, let me follow him on Twitter.” And so and those are impressionable minds and so I do still feel like I have a responsibility and yes, an Echo Chamber, you know, is one of the things and--

Daniel: Soap Box.

Joe: Yeah, Soap Box and Echo Chamber.

Daniel: It’s his favorite phrase.

Joe: And hopefully, this is-- look, I made like a deal with myself that if somehow we can get rid of Trump, I will forget about all this for a while. I will like, “Okay. the clear and present dangers past. Let me go back to try to belight hearted a little bit more.” Now I save it off for stage. Now I save it off for stand-up. I’m silly in the stand-up. Stand-up is-- I don’t think people want to hear about politics that much in stand-up.

Daniel: No I want to hear a racist funny jokes when I’m in Talking Panda.

Brandon: Besides Twitter, what do you do to, you know, spread your influence as far as something as, you know, serious stuff like the things that upsets you like what’s going on in politics. What else have you done?

Joe: Well I move, I vote with dollar and so I’m a big contributor to anytime there is like, you know, donate to plan parenthood in Mike Pence's name and donate, you know, I was a regular-- whatever account fucking the Bernie money goes to now, still money comes out of my account every month that I was donating to the Bernie Sanders campaign. I should look into that, I really wonder where that money is going now.

Daniel: Bernie has been running mayor with the cash.

Brandon: Bernie has been buying homes with all that cash. Bernie’s got three homes.

Joe: Yeah, exactly.

Daniel: Oh Bernie Madoff.

Joe: Yeah, which Bernie are we talking about here? You give bros a bad name. Yeah, I do, you know, and just in my Twitter, Facebook, coming on podcast. What else do I do? You know, we done a couple marches, whatever and I that that’s—

Daniel: Marching is fun.

Brandon: What have you done as far as you know we talked about this earlier with people traveling. Have you done any interactions with people on the other side?

Joe: Not in person. I do engage pretty regularly with people. I use to at least who had differing opinions on, you know, on various forms of social media.

Brandon: That’s dangerous.

Joe: It is dangerous and it's-- your spin in your wheels. 

Daniel: Yeah, look out for Pepe the green troll frog.

Joe: I did get one guy actually, to go look, "You might be right. In the face of all these evidence about what a bad guy Trump is, you might be right. But I’m going to be honest with you and tell you that he is the first politician I ever thought was talking to me." He is the first person that I ever was like this guy has noticed me and this like a sleeveless tank top dude from Iowa or something and he is like, “I hate to admit it, but like he’s the first time I ever didn’t feel ignored and we are-- so this is my whole thing, all this is based on wealth and equality. 

And it is in the top one percent’s best interest to keep the middle class angry at the lower class and the lower class angry at the even lower class and as long as all of that attention and negativity is focused downward, no one is paying attention to the fact that we are being robbed blind by the top of the pile.

Brandon: But it’s a society, it’s a machine, it’s a system. If you don’t have people working in different levels of the machine, you know, it’s not going to be operating with each other. I think it’s Joe Rogan always says, you know, "If we could bring everybody up, you know, just to the middle and make everybody just medium, whether it’s, you know, the amount of money you make or you’re not in any struggles or worries and everybody is riding in an even level playing field is that going to take less pressure on this level tier inside the society." The pressure off them and that turn is going to take the a little pressure off them or is it really a conspiracy like that that people are trying to construct, you know, and plotting different forms of society against each other.

Joe: I don’t think that it is necessarily as coordinated as a conspiracy theory. I just think that it’s a natural collusion, an implicit collusion rather than an explicit collusion. Where these CEO’s and captains of industry and investment bankers know what to do to work in coordination with each other without having to have secret meetings, you know, and like shadowy figures spanking each other with paddles and like a giant pyramid.

Daniel: It’s game theory.

Brandon: Fucking eye opener.

Joe: Yeah, exactly that’s exactly what it is.

Daniel: And they are all the best and they are all good at it. They’ve perfected their skills [inaudible 1:15:40] each other.

Joe: Exactly, and so you’re right. It is a society and it’s how our society works and there are other societies that, you know, that don’t necessarily aren’t-- look, one is extreme communism which, you know, pretty much everyone agrees doesn’t work, but there are places like Finland. Sweden for example, when like people’s level of income doesn’t reach these astronomical numbers and the money that they pay. You go in Finland, right. You get a speeding ticket, the amount you're speeding ticket is based on your salary, not based on how fast you’re going because are one of the society where a rich person can afford to speed more than a poor person. 

Brandon: And you see that like in a-- and that was a big problem in very low income neighborhoods like Ferguson, Missouri. That some of these people get these tickets and they don’t have the money to pay. 

Joe: Yeah, and they’ve been trapped forever.

Brandon: And you saw the same thing happen when, you know, you would take it. So you got $10,000 cash on you and you happen to be going to purchase a car or you happen to—whatever reason why you have $10,000 and If you get pulled over and the cop just happens to search you and you don’t have a reason why you have that $10,000 they have search and seizure and they are just taking that cash.

Daniel: Probably happen to so many poker players.

Brandon: And they were having that problem when they were doing, just buying, you know, margarita machines, they are buying tanks and cars. They are just confiscating all these cash.

Joe: Yeah, and it takes forever to get it back and it’s expensive to get it back.

Brandon: To pay for a lawyer to go through the process, it’s costly.

Joe: Yeah, it happens to poker players on occasion. I’ve got a couple of fun stories of guys bringing massive amounts of cash across borders. Like a guy winning like 300 grand in Canada and driving across the border and you have to declare anything over $10,000 and so he declares it and they are like, "Where did you get this money?" and then they googled the tournament search result like you know, the front page headline of pokernews.com. They are like, “That’s me. Posing with $300,000.” they're like, "Okay, here you go Sir on your way."

Brandon: Sounds like Dave Peters.

Daniel: When I went into Canada, they-- well I went with my friend, he plays poker and we brought his U-haul truck. I drove from Vegas up there and we get to the boarder and they stop us and they are like, “You’re not coming in here. You’re trying to move in to Canada with all your stuff, you can’t do that.”

Joe: Oh shit, yeah.

Daniel: And while that was happening, they went through our phones. We didn’t know they were going through our phones and they went through all of his-- he had a his PocketFives profile open, so they could see all his victories, but then they also went through his text message where he was like talking about people buying his action and like sending people money and so they took it as-- they looked at it as like, “You’re not necessarily a winner because--“, they read really in depth into this entire situation.

Joe: Inaccurately but deeply.

Daniel: Yeah, so another part of this story is we went—they booted us. They didn’t thought us to go back. We went back to a hotel in Bellingham, Washington. We made up 21 fake documents and we got back into Canada and forever more--

Joe: What fake documents did you make?

Daniel: You know, I don’t know if I can say that--

Brandon: You can make fake travel documents across borders. I did in Bolivia.

Daniel: We made fake documents, yeah. Fake well—

Joe: Passports?

Brandon: No.

Daniel: We made fake airline tickets. No, no not passports.

Brandon: You get other proof of like they’re going to be able leave the country.

Daniel: Proof that I’m going to leave the country. Yeah.

Joe: Jesus Christ.

Daniel: But they wanted extreme amount of stuff from us and we didn’t have. I needed proof of employment previously.

Joe: And you weren’t trying to pull anything over on them, right? Like you weren’t actually staying in Canada.

Daniel: No, we were going there for-- I had already had a place there and was leaving-- I was leaving two months though. I was planning on going for four months and I’m leaving.

Joe: The legal.

Daniel: Yeah, the legal immigrant. And he was planning to go there for five months and leave and there was no plans otherwise and I had already had a place and they told me the first when I got there, “You’re not getting back in” like, “I’m sorry someone’s going to have to--", "all my stuff is there, what do you mean I can’t get back in?”, "Eh, look, but you’re going to have to come back with these documents.” and thank God we got those.

Brandon: Praise his name.

Daniel: Yeah, and got back in and forever more. And she knows some poker players, but forever more I am in secondary if I ever go to Canada. Like they put me in the little search room and ask me what I’m doing or where I’m going and a million different questions.

Brandon: Canada is strict.

Joe: They got a nice country there, I mean, it makes sense but--

Brandon: Sounds like when I come back from back into America and become a big beard on me, if you come from an Arab country.

Joe: Yeah, you guys both look a little brown. You look like, you know, you could be—you could pass for not white. 

Daniel: Even Miami.

Brandon: Got to be incognito everywhere you go. Be able to blend in.

Daniel: I don’t want to know—I don’t want people to know I’m related to Bernie Madoff. I mean, not related to him but, you know, users are still okay.

Joe: You got a little Gosling thing going on over here. I think one of my friends said about you the other night. You must get that regularly.

Daniel: Not.

Joe: You.

Daniel: This guy yeah.

Joe: All right, you both have it a little bit. No when I see it. Two handsome strapping lads from Miami.

Brandon: With a podcast.

Joe: With a podcast, Get On The Bus. No, On The Bus sorry. Get On The Bus was the like the black movie, right.

Daniel: You’re either on the bus or you’re off the bus.

Joe: Was that from the movie?

Brandon: No, no, no. It’s from Tom Wolfe’s Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.

Joe: Okay.

Daniel: Yeah, what the movie you’re talking about?

Joe: There was a movie, do you remember The Million Man March? You guys are probably like five years old when it happened.

Brandon: This is back in 63?

Joe: The 90s.

Daniel: Don’t even know what that is.

Brandon: Martin Luther King, Million Man March?

Joe: No, no, no. There was—they try to recreate it like in the 90s. Like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. And there’s a movie they made about, like a comedy, about like a bunch of people going to the Million Man March called Get On The Bus. So it’s like one of those black comedies or whatever.

Daniel: I mean, now we’re going to have to watch it.

Brandon: I mean, inequality between--

Joe: Luckily, you didn’t put the word “Get” in your podcast title. So you’re On The Bus. They are Get On The Bus. Well done.

Brandon: It’s an incredible thing that people-- protesting itself, like you literally have to have hundreds of thousands or millions of people going out on a permanent basis to get your point across. But it also can’t just be that, you got to resort to some kind of extremer violence or else no one is going to pay attention. Especially--

Joe: Well I hope that’s not true, but it could be. It could be. I really hope that is not true but--

Brandon: What was accomplished in Ferguson, I mean, to think a how many people died and keep protesting for months and months and months on end in trying to get this person arrested who’s a police commissioner, the mayor.

Joe: Well I think public awareness is one thing that you can accomplish without violence and or extremism. Is that when people see these things on the news, they can go, “Oh, there is other people that.” you can make someone aware of your cause and you can have people on your side. I really don’t know the answer Brandon. I don’t. Like, you could be very right and I feared this for a long time that like that nothing is going to change in this world unless there’s like bloody violent revolution and maybe the United States is no exception. 

Maybe we’re going to see that in our life time. I think there’s a definite possibility of that but I hope, I hope it’s not true. I hope that we can get it done peacefully and I hope that we can like just slowly inch our way into equality and, you know, for all people. 


Brandon: You said it best, it’s, you know, we don’t know and you know, usually people are getting in trouble when they claim that they know something or they know more than someone else and my way is right, your way is wrong.

Joe: There’s some things I’m definitely think I’m right about but in this particular then yes, I don’t know.

Brandon: It comes down to, you know, what are the rules of being a human. What’s right and what’s wrong, who gets more? Who gets less? Either you see it in a kind of political system or plainly political order, you know, if you were trying to say, “Democracy is the only way.” and everybody has to have a democratic system, any place, any part of the world but there’s places and parts of the world where it just doesn’t mesh and go in with other cultures and it just crumbles and deteriorates. And it’s--

Daniel: Example.

Brandon: Afghanistan.

Joe: I like the way you challenge him a lot on his thing, that’s good.

Daniel: I disagree with his point that he just made because I’ve studies economics and from what I’ve seen from studies that I’ve researched, that when you bring cultures together, it is much more beneficial.

Brandon: We’re not saying we’re going to bring them together. I’m saying, you’re trying to tell them what is the political system and the way they have to structure the society.

Joe: Brandon’s point is that like, it’s maybe a little irresponsible for us to try to force democracy in everyone, right?

Brandon: Yeah.

Daniel: I can completely agree with that, yeah.

Brandon: And in other way saying that communism, everybody has to be the same because they have to do it and you’re telling people who you claim that they have the freedom and this is the right system. You’re telling them how to live their life.

Joe: You’re free but this is the freedom that you’re going to have though. 

Brandon: Exactly, the rules.

Joe: Yeah, right.

Daniel: Can’t stand them. It’s-- this is the confines of our society. Whether it’s how you spend your money, what you can spend it on, who are you going to exchange money with, as well as, you know, what you can and can’t do.

Joe: So you can serious have a Libertarian, is that more your stance.

Daniel: Yes.

Brandon: Yes and no because again, I have to confine to a certain amount of rules to be a part of-- to say that I’ve, you know, match up and mesh with a certain structure of [inaudible 1:24:50] society.

Joe: Sure, okay. You don’t want like to be put in a box but—

Daniel: Yes.

Brandon: Yeah, because it’s a problem right there, claiming, classifying people of who they are, what they are because the same thing we talked about earlier with you saying you’re in this part of society. And that’s who you are and I don’t like that you don’t do the same rules that I do. If you maybe did, maybe you wouldn’t be in this mess. It’s like-- do you know this person’s background? Do you know where they are coming from? Who they are and what they’ve gone through? to say that they are deserving.

Joe: Yeah, well like we all can agree that like, you know, labels are-- it makes it easier for us, for the person doing the labeling but not necessarily always the easier on the person being labeled. So when I’m like, "You’re a libertarian right?" You’re like, "Well not exactly." That makes sense, it’s just easier for me to categorize you and be like this mostly aligns with what he’s in to. But in general, people don’t like that. They don’t want to be labeled. They don’t want to be like, “Yeah, I’m gay but that’s not-- it doesn’t define me. I’m not like—“

Daniel: Which is a part of the human condition to want to label things. It’s part of our brain mechanism.

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: Right. To simplify things. Yeah.

Daniel: If I had to understand the complexity of everything in the Universe, I mean, my brain can’t handle that.

Brandon: You will never become a robot thinking like that.

Joe: You ever think about and then you just like you just have to stop. You’re like, “Oh! stop thinking about that right now. Fuck!”

Daniel: Deep in the portal, yeah.

Joe: I got to snap myself out of it. I’m like, “No, no, no, just go-- what’s on TV tonight?”

Daniel: It’s the thought of the Matrix.

Brandon: I have a problem doing that. Just like going and watching like I was talking to this one girl and say, “Yeah, I got to watch some of that stupid stuff sometimes.” What? the reality show or this channel or that channel. I’m like, “I can’t do it.”

Joe: No, I’m right there with her.

Brandon: I don’t tune out enough.

Daniel: It’s bothersome that people don’t think about those things though. That a large of the society will just, “I don’t want to talk about that. I don’t want to hear it. I don’t want to think about that reality potentially existing." so instead they pick up something else to kind of push their mind out of what could be the reality.

 

Brandon: And they all have those thoughts. Everybody goes through well there’s those things like, who am I? Why am I here? What is this? What is everything that’s happening and going on around me? I’m going to die, when I’m going to die?

Daniel: Being a teen.

Brandon: Am I doing this right? Am I being a teenager? What’s being a teenager? And but just not addressing them or sharing.

Daniel: I remember puberty.

Brandon: Puberty.

Joe: We’re talking about jerking off before and it reminded me of the story, one of the most embarrassing experience of my life, is that when I first discovered-- and we’re going to bring it back to something light hearted now-- when I first discovered masturbating, I was doing it all the time. All the time like from the time that lights went out, like nine o’clock in my bed room to like one in the morning, every night. I was doing it. 

And my penis was so small that I use to-- my fingernails on my hand would rub against the palm of my hands because wrapping around my penis, it would touch and come all the way around and touch and I was squeezing so hard. So I would end up will a sore on the palm, like a blister. And this one day I was at school-- I was in middle school and me and a buddy like both reach for the same thing at the same time. We both saw each other’s blister and shared this moment of like yanking our hands back at the same exact time and then like one last bit of eye contact and then everything was said in that moment is like will never speak of this again, but in a way it was comforting to know that I wasn’t like a sick deviant fuck that was like self-mutilating just because I couldn’t stop spanking my monkey every night in my bedroom.

Brandon: Yeah, that’s a good lesson to learn at that age. Like, “Oh, there’s other people doing this.”

Joe: It’s okay, yeah, like my parents were kind of religious and my brother sort bought in to it for a while. We were raised Catholic and he was like, “You don’t do that, do you?” I was like, “No.”

Brandon: Of course not.

Joe: Because it’s like disgusting. It’s a sin and it’s disgusting and like then eventually he just realized like, “No it’s pretty fucking great.”

Brandon: You still got a rag on him for remember that one time you didn’t like jerking off, remember you told me.

Joe: I don’t want to bring it up because I’m sure he has caught me so many times like at that age like because I was just doing it everywhere and anywhere. That like I can remember specific incidents of him catching me doing it. I don’t want those incidents to come up. So I’m just going to not bring up the whole.

Daniel: He still has those AOL floppy disk, could be out.

Joe: Yeah, he probably still has the evidence hidden somewhere.

Daniel: That’s retro porn at this point.

Joe: Yeah, well, you know, the oldies are still goodies.

Brandon: Bush. We don’t get bush.

Daniel: No, like, 20-30 years from now that probably be sellable.

Joe: Vintage porn. My vintage animated GFs.

Daniel: And vintage bush.

Joe: Look, I didn’t grow up in the 1800s, all right guys. We’re still talking like 1995 here. People knew what razors were.

Daniel: In our generation if you’re not shaved.

Brandon: Got to be bald.

Joe: I feel like the hair is going to be coming back soon though. Because we’ve been bald for a while.

Daniel: But we’ve slowly put the crabs to extinction.

Joe: Is that? I forgot all the hygienic reasons of that.

Daniel: I truly hope it doesn’t come back.

Joe: Really? I don’t mind. I mean, look, everybody wants it be trimmed if you’re going to put your mouth somewhere, right? Same goes for guys, same goes for girls. But like, the presence of hair there does not disturb me in any way shape or form. The presence of like clearly this has never been touched throughout history is a bit of a is a little off pudding but I like a little hair-do down there, it’s fine. You eventually grow to appreciate variety.

Brandon: Personality. 

Joe: Yeah.

Brandon: Gives a little personality.

Joe: Personality, variety, a little like different sensation. Let you know when you’re getting close, right. You know when you go to finger a girl and you lick your fingers first.

Brandon: Uh-huh.

Joe: And then you try to sneak your hand down the bed like a game of operation because you don’t want to touch your fingers to anything and get the spit off of it and then you’re touch your thigh back and then you’re like, “Shit I got to go again, uh.” and you’re like trying to work your way down there. You know, when you like start getting to the scruffy stuff that you’re getting close. Like almost there.

Brandon: The five o’clock shadow.

Joe: Yeah, exactly.

Daniel: So you’re saying that--

Joe: It’s a guide. It’s a road, it’s a sign.

Daniel: If it's too bald you get lost.

Joe: Exactly, you don’t know where you are at if it’s too it’s all too bald down there.

Brandon: The compass rose, stubble and hair.

Joe: Exactly, it’s like, you know, when the old explorers and the Columbus ships knew they are close to land because they can see birds. That’s the bush. They’re like, “Oh, land hoe. Things are on their way there.”

Brandon: We’re doing it right.

Joe: You guys remember when you're-- just try it, it’s such a filthy bet. Every time I’m trying to like touch a girl down there, I always feel like I’m looking for a song on an iPod classic. The way I’m running my fingers around in a circle.

Brandon: Do you get a full circular rotation?

Joe: Yeah, I know, they like this move here. Just remember, just picture an old iPod if you guys want to know to do this. Picture an old iPod and let’s say you’re looking for like a song that’s—

Brandon: You always got stuck.

Joe: Yeah, like a band that starts at letter M. Let’s say you’re looking for the Monkeys, right. So you can’t scroll back a few and then so in the middle you have to go, “rrrrrrrrr.” and got that little wheel going, so you can scroll through but you’re right if you don’t do it perfectly, eventually it stops in like K.

Brandon: Yeah, or goes too far pass.

Joe: Yeah, and you’re like, “Oh, fuck! W shit.” and then you got to roll it back. That’s my approach. Just like I’m searching for a song in an iPod classic. Just got to get a good rotation going. I’m doing the hand signals here in the studio which is not good for any of you who are listening, but trust me in the studio you would really know what I was talking about.

Brandon: For a certain group of people who had iPods, yes. You painted a perfect picture.

Joe: Did you guys never have an iPod classic?

Brandon: No, I had one.

Daniel: Yeah, but there is that, you know, the people that we are talking about earlier, they didn’t have iPods, so they’re not going to be familiar with that Joe.

Joe: Right, right and they all listen to your show. They love it.

Brandon: I think most of our listeners had iPod.

Daniel: No, no they might had a Walkman, so for them it’s a different mode.

Joe: It’s kind of like plugging your-- when you’re trying to have sex, it’s kind of like plugging your headphones into a Zune. It’s just like-- you guys don’t know Zune.

Daniel: No, no we don’t.

Joe: Zune was the Microsoft competitor to the iPod.

Daniel: Z-U-N-E

Joe: yeah, Z-U-N-E, look it up. It’s like, you know, and the [inaudible 1:33:10] they have laser disk players and game gear. Shit, that doesn’t exist anymore.

Daniel: Yeah, for $500 that’s going to be on Jeopardy for sure, a category.

Joe: The Zune?

Daniel: No, shit that doesn’t exist anymore.

Joe: Shit that doesn’t exist anymore. You guys are probably never seen an answering machine, have you?

Brandon: No.

Daniel: I always wonder what happened to VCRs. Like who collected all the VCRs.

Joe: I have a VCR still.

Daniel: Do you use it?

Joe: No, but I have it just in case I want to watch my stupid films from college. I have my VHS tapes. It's pretty much the only reason I have a VCR and one sex tape.

Brandon: What kind of films?

Daniel: What kind of sex tape?

Joe: Okay, so there’s one time I had a girl friend who is like, “Look, I want to film us having sex, but A, when it’s over I get the tape.” and that’s it there’s no B. So I was kind of a sneaky mother fucker and so what I did was-- so we plug the video camera. We use the real camera, wasn’t like a GoPro or anything. It’s an actual camcorder and I plugged it to the TV, so we can watch ourselves as we are doing it and so--

Brandon: Got to have that.

Joe: Right, it’s the whole point really. So we recorded it on like this mini DV tape in the camcorder which I promptly gave to her afterward and I say, “Here you go, you said you get to keep the tape afterward, I get nothing to do with it.” But what I didn’t say was I also was recording it on the VCR at the same time. Because I was running the VCR through the TV too. So I did give her the tape technically, but I still have a tape.

Daniel: Vintage porn for sale.

Joe: Exactly. The weirdest thing was is years later I was dating another girl and I told her the story and she’s like we’re going to watch that tape.

Daniel: Really.

Joe: Yeah, and she got turned on watching the tape of me.

Daniel: Younger you.

Joe: Yeah, wasn’t that much younger. I was like maybe two or three years younger banging my ex-girlfriend and she got really turned on by this and I was like, “You’re either awesome or you’re going to kill me in my sleep.”

Daniel: You could have a video of her watching the other video.

Joe: Oh yeah, the reaction video. That’s not even a thing yet.

Brandon: There you go, the Inception, film inside a film.

Joe: You just need some buffers. You want to be like face to face with them for like seven days straight. Yeah, it’s fine. It’s fine recording.

Daniel: Yeah, this is the backend of our highlights, yeah.

Joe: Yeah, no problem. So wait so you guys can’t be honest about this because we’re rolling right now, but you’ve given me the little wink winks.

Brandon: Comments about what? We can be honest.

Joe: That you got, like, you know, there is some girls that you liked, but you just like I just don’t want to spend five days straight with you.

Brandon: I’ve never-- I’ve done it recently.

Joe: Yeah, right.

Brandon: But like before that, like, yeah I just haven’t—I would even say just invest my time. I think there’s much more important things than or just haven’t met anybody that been interested enough and to spend that much time with them.

Joe: Yeah, that’s good chase your dreams not your boners.

Daniel: I like spending, like if I-- I like spending time. Like a hundred percent of the time with the girl.

Joe: Really? But do you get burns outs super quick if you do that? like I fucking fall in love so hard. I’m like, “I love you. I want to do everything with you.” And then a week later, I’m like, “Fuck how do I get rid of this girl and shit, what do I do?”

Daniel: Yeah, yeah, that’s me. Yeah, that’s me. Yeah, I want to spend every second with you.

Brandon: I experienced that.

Joe: Yeah, now that I’m-- this girl visiting is a friend, I know enough to be like, “Great, we could do three days just the two of us. Then, we should like go hang out with some other people. Then, we’re going to go back to whatever.” You know what I mean, like I’m experienced. I’ve had a-- look, I know we’re going to wrap this up. I would genuinely consider myself a dating and relationship expert. Like I just have done everything you can possibly do. Threesomes, weird experiences with prostitutes, not with just myself, but I had a girlfriend that was obsessed with prostitutes. I’ve dated dominatrixes. I’ve dated drug addicts. I’ve dated a married woman. Fucking moms, I’ve literally done everything impossibly do.

Brandon: You tried cam girls.

Joe: Cam girls.

Brandon: Now we’re reopening the floor right now. Were this moms married or single?

Joe: The married person that I dated briefly, well did not have kids.

Daniel: I wouldn’t pick moms out of that list. You know, I might have went for the one that wanted you to bang prostitutes or dominatrix but you know, that’s a good choice too.

Joe: Not so-- I thought he was start-- he was like working his way up to those other ones.

Daniel: No.

Brandon: Yeah, don’t question my approach. You saw my scrabble moves last night. Crushed it.

Daniel: It’s strategy.

Joe: Did you have like it’s a whole set up lull them until like a false sense of security and then you bang them with the triple word score and the double letter score combo.

Brandon: Oh yeah, just blotching the board playing a good defense. 

Joe: Oh all those little annoying two letter words and there’s nowhere someone to build off of. Yeah.

Brandon: Thinking four moves ahead.

Daniel: And then wait until set it up, “Oh bam now we got the triple word score with both lanes covered.”

Joe: Oh yeah, it’s sickness. I love it. I’m getting a little wet over here, thinking about scrabble.

Brandon: Oh yeah?

Joe: Yeah, I've had words with friends a lot.

Brandon: What happens when you get wet.

Joe: I’m still like a words of friends guy. I’m like living in 2006 still. No,probably 2008.

Brandon: Later 12.

Joe: Later than that, okay good but I’m still, I like taking my moves every day. Yeah. They added some weird power ups that I don’t really like.

Daniel: Really?

Joe: There’s a button you can press. You can buy them obviously that tells you like where you can put words, so like it turns all of those spaces pink that you can put a word down on.

Daniel: It’s stupid.

Brandon: You got to monetize it somehow, for dumb people.

Joe: I know they are probably like, yeah.

Brandon: Dumb people who are willing to spend their money.

Daniel: [inaudible 1:38:38] of the top 50 selling apps, over 25 of them are games.

Joe: Oh yeah, people love games. Keeps the brain going.

Brandon: Can you turn your mic again.

Daniel: Do your microphone.

Joe: Anyway, yeah I’m happy to come on the show again if you guys want to talk more about dating tell crazy dating stories.

Brandon: No, no, this is great. Politics, this topics we can always bring up and discuss and from a knowledgeable veteran. Person who is, you know, having sex with prostitutes that are with girlfriend.

Joe: No, no. I’m not saying I did that. I’m just saying I dated a girl who is obsessed with prostitutes.

Brandon: Obsessed with prostitutes.

Joe: I’ll tell the story on your podcast another time, but the story ends with me not having sex with a prostitute on three separate occasions.

Daniel: Okay, not the ending I thought it was going to be.

Brandon: This is better question, did you pay for that prostitute.

Joe: Oh God, yes. I paid for two of the three of them. But I didn’t have sex with, yes.

Brandon: We’ll save that talk to for next time.

Joe: Yeah.

Brandon: About how prostitution, women having sex for money should not be illegal.

Joe: Also, I’m all for it. In his libertarian box, that’s one of his no rules on selling your body. I’m afraid of being a-- I think prostitution should be legal, right, in theory. I’m afraid if they did make it legal, that I would never have free sex ever again for the rest of my life because all women will just get together and go, “You know, we should all just charge.” 

You know like little people do, like in Hollywood, right. They are very close knit community or talking dwarves. Little people is what they prefer to be called, LPs. So when I worked on a TV show the will put out a casting call for an LP and as a team, they all go, “This job isn’t paying off, no one take this fucking job. No one take this until they raise the date rate on it."

Daniel: They are like Unionize. 

Joe: Yeah, and they were all respected it. And I think that’s what going to happen if they make prostitution legal all women will get together go, “We’re never having sex for free ever again.”

Daniel: Some women loves sex. That’s not going to happen.

Brandon: Yeah.

Joe: I hope you’re right. I hope you are right because I’ll be like If they unionize, if women just unionize and just be like, “Guess what prostitution is legal. Every single time is going to cost these fuckers. I’ll be like, “I’m broke, that’s it.”

Brandon: As co-founder of the handsome dick club, that’s not going to happen.

Joe: Wow! the handsome dick club. Do you have to have a handsome dick to get it or.

Brandon: If you got to ask, you can’t afford it. It’s rule 63 of the handsome dick club.

Joe: Rule 63, okay.

Daniel: Oh I get all the good looking dicks to myself. 

Joe: Right, that’s because it will never work. There will always one hold out and then like the whole system crumbles. You need 100% participation.

Brandon: And plus, women are too-- they’re too catty. They talk about each other behind their backs, so there’s some fighting.

Joe: There might be like some issues over like, “What you have how much? There’s no way she got that.”

Brandon: Wait what was your tip?

Joe: Right, exactly. Just the tip. See bring all the prostitution. Bring on the dating stories. You guys, speaking of prostitutes, are going to have a great time in South America.

Brandon: I laugh because I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I do know what you’re talking about.

Joe: You will know what I’m talking about. Very, very soon. It’s a totally different world down there, guys.

Brandon: I’ve approved to live in Chile, but we’re starting in Columbia. I just don’t think we’re going to be able to make it out of Columbia. 

Joe: I would, the only way I get out of Columbia is a body bag and like the fucking bottom of an airplane cargo hold in the casket. Like that would be-- that’s how I’m getting out of Columbia.

Daniel: He is the driver of the bus. I just get to hang out.

Joe: That’s a much safer position to be in, driving. Well not with from a legal stand point. But you tend to like be more focused and like interested and like just if you got a job to do. 

Daniel: Uh-huh

Joe: You I’m worried about.

Daniel: Good, you should be.

Joe: Yeah, but I think it’s a good-- I think it’s actually good that he has to drive because if you were driving he would die.

Daniel: No, if he wasn’t driving it would be problem with him. He’d be gone.

Joe: That’s what I mean.

Daniel: He has to be confined to the bus.

Joe: Exactly what I mean is that like you’re-- you seem somewhat more responsible than him, so you have a less responsibilities is better. Because with all the free time that he would have not driving, you’d be fucked.

Brandon: No.

Joe: Yeah.

Daniel: I like the dynamic you’re building.

Joe: Yeah.

Daniel: You, I hope to see you down in one of those. Whatever they call it, prostitution dens?

Brandon: Sex dens, they call them sex dens.

Joe: Let's call them brothels, thank you.

Brandon: Sex den is better.

Joe: Well I’ll see if I can get that ex-girlfriend on the horn if she wants to come with, then we’ll come down and maybe fourth time is a charm.

Brandon: Now we got a party.

Joe: Right.

Daniel: Four is a party.

Brandon: That’s what the bus is all about. Joe thank you so much. 

Joe: Thank you for having me.

Brandon: Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for letting us squeeze you in the schedule. Again send our listeners, maybe some of the listeners who are new to the show. Where are they going to be able to find you? Where are they going to be able to connect with you? Anything, emails, social media accounts, let it rip.

Joe: Sure. All right, so if you like poker and honestly, even if you don’t. My style of doing poker commentary is like pretty fun. My whole point is trying to attract people that might not like poker. So my Pokerstars show is called The Pokerstars Championship. All of the episodes of those shows are done. You can find at Pokerstars.tv. 

There is also an app that you can download that has pretty much every poker show we’ve ever made on it. My American facing poker show it’s on CBS Sports on Monday nights. It’s called Poker Night America. You can also YouTube those. After a couple of weeks, they go up in YouTube. Really fun cash game show. If you want to follow me on Twitter for the occasional joke and a lot of resist tweeting. That is @Stapes on Twitter. 

I got a Facebook fan page, Joe Stapleton and I’m doing a show in Los Angeles, in the comedy store, July 1st.  So holler at me on social media, I’ll send you a link for discount tickets if you guys want to come to see me do some stand-up. And swipe right if you see me on Tinder. I’m very lonely as you can tell, swipe right, give me a super like, whatever, I’m pretty much up for anyone.

Daniel: You know what, we’re going to get your Tinder profile pic and that’s going to be the poster that you get in Instagram.

Joe: The thumbnail? Yeah, yeah let’s do it. I’ll ship you the screen shot of that, no problem.

Daniel: Perfect.

Brandon: Joe thanks again. Thank you for giving that over to anybody fans as far as the discount of the tickets to the show. I know people definitely take you up on that. All right.

Joe: Cool man, wonderful and make sure you guys send me on either Twitter or email or something, how I can promote this appearance.

Daniel: For sure.

Brandon: Absolutely. We’ll definitely plug in over there. Thank you again so much. Blum anything?

Daniel: Off the bus.

Brandon: Off the bus. The bus is out, cheers everyone.

Joe:: It’s like Bang Bus, they are kicking me out. No!

[Laughs]

Brandon: Oh, Joe Stapes, Joe Stapes. Everybody if you like this episode. If you literally liked it, head over and hit that subscribe button if you aren’t already subscribed and you have already download the show. Head back over and check out some of the amazing other shows we have @onthebuspodcast. And big thank, most of all, to Joe Stapes. This show is recorded on LA. An amazing conversation. Joe just finished his run with Pokerstars at the World Series of Poker. You can find a bunch, a wide range, of stuff all over YouTube. 

All over the internet of his coverage of the current World Series of Poker and it was a fucking [inaudible 1:45:36] of World Series. And again, to connect with Joe, you’re going to find him @Stapes S-T-A-P-E-S on Twitter and Joe Stapleton, Stapes on Facebook. A huge shout out to our affiliate sponsors. Make sure you go to the website, onthebuspodcast.com and you click on the Amazon portal and get your shopping done. Remember there’s Green Roads World promo code onthebus for a 30% discount. Episode 37, the Kickstarter is in. It’s almost done. Please reach out. We’d love to hear what you guys thought the Kickstarter will look to find about ways for you to join the trip. The bus is out. I got no more time music. See you!

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